105 12 speed and di2 confirmed for 2022?

One thing that struck me was that you can’t add shifter buttons or such like at least on Rival you can, they’re marking themselves out on that… forcing you upto Ultegra

You can’t add sprint shifters to Rival.

One interesting thing: will the 105 and UDi2 stuff talk to each other like AXS? If so, that opens up a range of possibilities.

The price is higher than expected though and leaves a pretty big gap.

I see a lot of this being sold, but I also think we’re going to see more and more Chorus 12sp as well.

1 Like

I don’t know what you’d class as a fortune, but Chorus 12sp?

1 Like

One interesting thing: will the 105 and UDi2 stuff talk to each other like AXS? If so, that opens up a range of possibilities.

Yep! Fully compatible (but no satellite shifters/hood buttons for 105 Di2).

So you could use 105 Di2 with Ultegra shift levers, for example :slight_smile:

Probably the best option out there although it would be a bit annoying to have to change all the freehub bodies on my wheels.

I’ve only heard good things about the brakes but must admit that I’ve never had a problem with Shimano R7000 and 8000 disc brakes.

It’s pretty funny that currently, Campagnolo’s third tier groupset is cheaper than Shimano’s one.

You might be able to use shimano 12sp cassettes which fit on hg freehubs. I don’t know of anyone who’s tried it. I might be able to, actually. If I get a chance I will and will report back.

I know you can on the top tier g.set and the one down tho not sure on the one below that…

Cyclingtips wrote that R7000 will still be available. Maybe it’s a soft push from Shimano.

Maybe to appease the minority until the only thing left available without a battery or plug is a toothbrush…

It’s also an admission that there will be no further development of either rim brakes and mechanical shifting by Shimano.

1 Like

So Shimano is saying they are perfect?
Regarding price/performance/maintanability/durability.

1 Like

UPDATE: Ratio Technology does not have such a product in the pipeline (yet?). But they say:

To be honest though it’s entirely possible that the SRAM shifters will work with a Shimano FD unmodified as the cable pull will likely be quite similar.

EDIT: Shimano FD and SRAM shifters indeed seem to be compatible.

I love my electric toothbrush though. About as much as Di2 :sweat_smile:

3 Likes

True for 10 speed, never tried 11.

Just in, even more news from Ratio:

We completely agree though that it’s a shame that 12 speed Road is restricted to electronic which is why we offer our current 2x12 Road kit to work with SRAM cassettes and we’re now working on a 2x12 kit that will be compatible with Shimano cassettes. We’ve been really happy with the performance of the new ratchet for this kit during testing and it should be available within the next 4-6 weeks hopefully.

This implies you can go:

  • Rival/Force… 11-speed mechanical shifters (rim or disc) with 12-speed Ratio upgrade
  • SRAM or Shimano 12-speed cassette with matching chain
  • SRAM or Shimano crankset depending on cassette choice
  • Rival/Force 11-speed RD (with Ratio upgrade if you decide to go for SRAM chainrings and cassette)
  • SRAM or Shimano 11-speed FD depending on your preference
  • matching rim brakes or SRAM disc calipers depending on the chosen shifters
1 Like

I’m going to take care of my Sram 10 and 11 speed shifters even more ^^

1 Like

Looks like a really good set up, bummed there’s no standard crankset option but a 9200 40t inner chainring will basically replicate a 53/39 and for $50. Pricing at face value seems high but looking at what discounts are out there for R8100 and 9200 you’re probably out the door for close to what you’d pay for a Rival eTap AXS groupset but being Shimano it’ll actually be somewhat decently manufactured. My situation (steel frame that is technically Di2 compatible but only with an external bb shell mount junction box) I’d go SRAM so I don’t have to deal with wires but that’s a hyper specific situation. Really wish these companies would stop railing us on hydro shifter prices though since those always break in a crash.

1 Like

Maybe try Centaur? I bought a Centaur 11 group minus the cranks and I’ve been pretty satisfied. It’s lighter than 105 too. The brakes on this group are spectacular.

1 Like

Slightly off topic, but regarding Shimano’s lack of backward compatibility I’d like to add two things that I didn’t see mentioned when everyone was shouting at each other a while back.

  1. DI2 operates on a CAN Bus network. Each component is given an ID on the network, as well as a signal priority. The system will work regardless of the order in which things are connected as certain components may only accept instruction from components who are programmed to ‘listen’ for a set of signals from a specific network ID.

  2. If Shimano wanted to provide backward compatibility they would need to provide firmware updates for every single component of each previous generation with which the compatibility is required, as the new device ID’s for 9200, 8100, and 7100 would all need to be added to the old components, in addition to all previous components being added to the current generation.

It sounds like a simple “oh yeah just tap out an update and plug in the system” but it would likely quickly become a colossal pain in the ass that would make debugging/troubleshooting an exponentially larger chore with each generation. The alternative they’ve chosen is to just work forward from each generation as most consumers don’t expect their 5 year old shifters to be compatible with a brand new derailleur etc.

3 Likes

Depending on the commands available, a possible hack would be to put an interposer circuit between the derailleur and the rest of the system, and when a shift command is sent, the interposer would receive that command and send a “microadjust/move x units” command to the derailleur. I’m not sure whether the interposer would need its own state machine, or if the controller (battery?) already has one and shares its state.

I guess it also depends on what hardware you have and what you’d want it to do.

I’ve wanted to put a CAN bus sniffer on the Di2 Etube wires, but I don’t have a Di2 bike to experiment with.