Hey Shimano....this is a BS move!

Shimano forces Hammerhead to remove all Di2 functionality from its computers…because they are now owned by SRAM.

D#ck move, IMO…they are only punishing their customers who have Di2 and a Hammerhead. Hell, they don’t even offer a computer so it isn’t like they are trying to protect their own sales.

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It’s petty, and a drag for current HH/di2 owners, but is anyone really going to let a head unit drive their gruppo choice?

Some may…certainly not many. but it mostly just a bad marketing / PR move for Shimano. Like I said, I have a HH and just bought a new Ultegra group and I think it is a crap move by them.

Why inflict unnecessary damage on yourself for zero gain?

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it just influenced mine, cancelled my DA9200 group that was on a frame set order.

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So you are punishing yourself - since you had clearly already decided that DA9200 was the best choice for you at some point - over an industry snit on something that frankly does not affect the performance of a bike (whereas switching from DA9200 risks having a greater impact on some aspect of bicycle performance). The past decade of BB standards chaos must have made your purchasing decisions very difficult.

Now, arguing that this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back as yet another in Shimano’s ongoing industry of marginal product decisions (di2 10-11 speed upgrade issues, killing the Pioneer analytics platform with minimal notice, the possible demise of mechanical down through 105 next year, the complete lack of logic in groupset price increases, etc), ok, I would maybe get that. I just prefer Shimano stuff to the other options, and would sooner switch to Garmin or Wahoo than change my groupset preference.

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I wouldn’t let a head unit drive my gruppo choice. But a company that chooses to make 10 and 11 speed di2 shifters not work with 12 speed di2 derailleurs won’t get my business, same for firmware updates that disable mixing and matching mtb/road components that previously worked.

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I disagree. I’m helping myself here, because it’s about the entire experience, and for me that’s not limited to just the bike.

I’m a happy Karoo2 user. It’s not perfect, but they keep delivering solid software updates which fix bugs and add features. I really like being able to get lost on a ride and have it figure out how to get me somewhere, or giving me a heads-up about the upcoming pitches on a climb, etc. These are legitimately useful things that make riding better, and they have nothing to do with the drivetrain. I do not want to go back to a Garmin/Wahoo.

Rhis would have been my third Di2 bike (had a 6770-equipped bike, currently on a 6870 bike). So yes, I’ve been happy enough to place the order for a 9200 bike. But that interest was predicated on getting new features/capabilities. Among those was being able to see things like gear indications, battery level, and hey being able to flip through computer display pages using the shifter buttons. These were things I was looking forward to having. If you’re going to have a bunch of tiny computers on your bike, they should be able to talk to each other.

You’re right that it’s a “final straw” situation.

The bike manufacturer has been waiting for DA groups that were supposed to arrive in March, but that didn’t happen. I get that supply chains are broken and hard to fix, so I’ve been waiting. I was willing to look past the lack of backwards compatibility between Di2 generations, although that probably should have been a bigger warning bell. I hadn’t been personally affected by the Pioneer sh!tshow.

This was something they revoked that was my tipping point. I don’t know if Shimano is planning some kind of Flightdeck reboot or has grander fitness “cloud” aspirations, but I’m out. It’s not punishing myself if I’m ultimately happier for not playing their game.

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What are you looking at instead?

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given parts availability/wait times, I’m going to wait and see if Campy announces anything, and maybe see if SRAM has a Red AXS update in the works.

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Still waiting on official comments from Shimano on this. At present it’s simply looking like “because they are a competitor”… which is petty AF. Garmin compete with pedals/power meters. Wahoo compete with SpeedPlay and PowrLink. I’m sure there’s a ton more examples of ‘competition’.

Accessing the Di2 sensor to simply read gear/battery/etc information isn’t giving SRAM access to the Shimano Di2 source code. SRAM/HH have this access right now. If there’s any “IP to be stolen” then it already has been. And you’d think Shimano would have covered their arse with patents relating to this in the first place. This is the same as signing up to Strava developer services, getting a private key, and accessing what little information you can over the Strava API. You get a subset of information that’s tightly controlled by Strava.

Two moves from here for Shimano to choose. #1 - Communicate on the subject and clearing up just wtf is going on here. Saying nothing or having some bs “because they’re a competitor” response from support is school yard level pettiness… or #2 - Apologise and allow SRAM/HH the same access as they have now… and the same access Garmin, Wahoo, Srages, Bryton, etc all continue to have to the Di2 sensor.

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Yeah… this is so bizarre

This anti competitive move certainly does impact a consumers groupset and computer choice. Good integration is important for many people. If I had Di2 already I probably wouldn’t purchase a Hammerhead now for this reason.

If anyone is to blame it’s Hammerhead which is owned by Sram. Obviously Shimano will not support any Sram product, whatever that is.

Plenty of other great head unit options out there to replace a Hammerhead.

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It’s not really about supporting SRAM products though. What Shimano is doing here is a massive slap in the face of any Di2 users that own a Karoo device.

This only hurts Shimano users and Shimano… not SRAM.

Imagine Garmin switching their Varia devices to private ANT, and then telling Wahoo that they no longer can pair with the Radar. Or Garmin’s power meters no longer working on any head unit other than Garmin.

Or Wahoo’s Kickr not pairing with Garmin’s EDGE devices.

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There it is….the only people getting hurt by this are the consumers. As Shane notes, this is just petty and reflects poorly on Shimano.

As an incoming Di2 user, it is disappointing that I now have to rely on the Shimano app to access any Di2 data / info for my system when it could have just been on my bike computer screen.

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Except they do….Zipp wheels, Quarq cranks, SRAM cassettes (prior to 12 spd), etc. All fully compatible with Shimano.

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Just asking -what car do you own - anyhow - it‘s Blackbox software will not work with any other manufacturers Blackbox software - now will it ? :wink:

Surely The Big S also hopes that the move will make Karoo products less attractive to potential buyers.

Software makes it a lot easier than hardware to restrict access to competitors.

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Right…which only hurts the consumers and their choices. There is zero benefit to Shimano.

Do you find it satisfying ?

This is one of the many reasons I don’t own a car anymore.