If a chain has been hot dipped and treated with Molten Speed Wax and needs to be lubed again, for example on a long, multi-day ride, would using something like Squirt drip wax have any negative consequences? My only only assumption would be that Squirt might have a difficult time adhering to the chain, but I’m not entirely sure. Is anyone else mixing their chain waxes out of necessity?
I can’t speak to Squirt specifically since I don’t use it but I’ve been using the Silca Super Secret drip wax between full wax baths for a couple years now with great results. Haven’t had any problems with adhesion to the chain, or anything else for that matter.
I’m in a similar situation, do a bit of multi day bikepacking and start with a MSW waxed chain. Mainly because it’ll pickup less junk from the trail if it’s dry, not so much for the watts when your bike is pushing 30kg……
I’ve been using Smoove lube to reapply at the end of each day. I chose it over squirt as it’s a bit less viscous and seems to penetrate better.
Bikepacking puts it in some pretty tough conditions with creek crossings, dirt and mud etc. The Smoove seems to do a decent job, doing it each night before bed gives it a chance to dry out.
One thing I haven’t figured out/researched, is if rewaxing this chain with Smoove on it is killing my pot of MSW or not. Paging Dave Rome!?
I wax using my own recipe of paraffin, ptfe, and Molten, and in between use Squirt to top things off–no adverse side effects, and chains are a LOT smoother and cleaner than any lubes I’ve used before, and the chains/cogs last a LOT longer–wouldn’t change a thing.
For my formulations, the solvent carrier in the solution wax will not redissolve the melt wax once the melt wax has solidified. I’ve outlined the reasons for this at great length in a previous thread.
This same principle should apply to other wax formulations but I cannot vouchsafe for them.
So (birdman), you mean, like in Plain English, using some sort of boost, such as Squirt, in between waxes, won’t harm the original wax coating, as noted above, right?
Yep should be fine, to ‘top-up’ with Squirt. Seem to remember one of the melted wax / chain suppliers used to recommend doing that in between full re-waxing. Just need to try and clean the chain as much as possible (with a dry cloth) before applying.
To those of you who top up with Squirt or the like, Do you have any concern of:
A. The top up wax (Squirt, etc.) messing with your wax bath?
B. Packing more dirt & debris into the layers of wax and top up wax? And even more so, concern of dirtying your pot of wax faster when you go to rewax?
B-2. What is everyone’s method for minimizing the rate at which your pot of wax accumulates debris?
–Two pots of wax, one prewax that gcollects the dirt and one second wax that stays cleaner?
–Boil chains first, then wax?
I ask B-2. mainly because I have taken to waxing my gravel chain but sometimes it comes back gritty if I ride in silty, sandy conditiions and I can’t help but assume that ends up mixed in my pot of wax. I tried boiling but didn’t really see it work all that great. It removed the most superficial wax, but a good bit of dark black parts of wax are still adhered in and around the pins and rollers.
I find Squirt does not mess up the wax on the chain (which has been depleted, thus the need for a quick refresher) nor does it accumulate much gunk as many supplements do. And, of course it won’t affect the wax bath later on, since, (a) I first do the shake-in-jar of mineral spirits cleaning, and then (b) boil the chain, before (c) placing the chain in the wax bath. At that point there is virtually nothing left on the chain to contaminate the bath. (I used to follow (a) and (b) with a bath in the ultrasonic, but found the first two steps removed 99.99% of the foreign matter, so I put the ultrasonic away). One pot of wax is enough for me–I refresh the pot after every 10 chain baths or so, though I think I could go a lot longer.
While I would never dispute the effectiveness of chain waxing, the complexity raised in this discussion means I will continue to live with regular chain cleaning on the bike and a drip lube.
I do salute your efforts, though.
That’s the spirit! The benefits (as in “game changing”) FAR outweigh any “complexities” (?) there are to waxing a chain. It’s the single best thing I’ve added to the routine of bicycle maintenance in the last 10 years–while I understand this kind of comment from someone who has actually tried it, and decided it didn’t work for them, but just to shut the door without even an attempt…hmmm.
Like many things, it sounds far more complex in discussing it on a forum than it actually is in practice. I’d highly recommend giving it a shot and seeing for yourself the difference before making a judgment.
It’s actually far less involved when it comes to using it. It sounds complex in text because it’s all new information if you’ve never done it. In reality, I end up turning my wax pot on once a month. I can’t say I reached for my wet lube bottle that infrequently.
Honestly, if you can change a tyre, you can wax a chain.
The initial outlay (UK) is probably a little over £100 (including a brand new, good quality chain, a few quick links, a cheap crockpot, a bag of MSM or similar, and a decent amount of solvents), but you’ll get that back in less than a year.
Cleaning off the factory lube is a bit of a pain, but it’s not complicated, and takes 10-15 minutes. And that’s the hardest bit.
It’s honestly a game-changer in reducing wear, saving money, and having a much cleaner (and usually quieter) drivetrain.
In response to @pdailey9
A: I imagine the volume of any residual squirt would be negligible when putting back in the pot
B: In a multi day scenario you definitely would want to wipe the chain down at the end of the day. Re-immersing wouldn’t be too different to any other gritty ride. Boiling water will mostly strip the exterior with the wax immersion doing in between the rollers.
I find it really easy to pour off your melted wax into another pot then as you return it, pour slowly and leave any gritty debris at the bottom out.
I’ve found you can’t put Silca drip lube on top of an immersed MSW chain. It just creates a load of black rubbery particles.
Are you talking about Silca drip wax, the super secret drip? Or their oil based lubes, synergetic or whatever its called? I’m not sure exactly which you’re doing but I’ve been running Silca super secret drip wax between immersions for the last couple years and have never seen a “load of black rubbery particles” result. You’ll get the same excess wax you’d get using super secret drip on a clean chain that flakes away but that’s it in my experience across multiple bikes.
Hi, this is from Zero Friction Cycling excellent chain waxing FAQ…Hope of some use
What drip lubes can I use with Mspeedwax?
A) The best lubricants known to use with immersive waxing are Silca SS drip as number one as it was designed to be used with immersive waxing, but Tru tension tungsten all weather and ufo drip I have also tested and work perfectly well to be able to re-wax over without any cleaning intervention necessary.
Other wax emulsion lubricants like squirt or Smoove you can – just note they use a very different wax base, so it is best if using those lubricants to a) ensure when apply you wipe excess thoroughly after working in – something you should do for all lubes anyway – but this keeps them from gunking up – and b) run that treatment until chain starts to sound and feel a bit dry – then re-wax. One or two applications of such lubricants do not appear to impact wax adherence, but I wouldn’t recommend re waxing over many applications of Smoove or squirt without cleaning first as it may impact adherence as their wax base has a higher mineral oil content.
absoluteBlack have also confirmed perfectly fine to re-wax straight over graphene lube with msw or hot melt as their base is also an extremely refined wax base.
Never re-wax over a wet lube.
I spoke to Adam. He said if you need to top up a chain done with MSW you can use either UFO Drip or Silca Super Secret. The other waxes have too much carrier that stays in them.
While Chris Horner suggests that Squirt is just as good, if not better, for topping up a waxed chain…