You’re the one that tried to make factual statements about a tire I’ve run despite not actually having any qualitative data outside of one RR test and one puncture resistance test and some anecdotal experiences. More importantly instead of just glossing over the topic you decided to click, comment, and add zero value by only recommending a product that I explicitly stated in the headline I didn’t have the characteristics I wanted. Congrats though you got to shill a product in here, you should drop in some affiliate links. Others commented with this tire btw but also recommended other products since they actually read my post and realized I was willing to trade RR for more grip.
Yeah, it’s amazing how long they’ll last. For OP, GP4000 IIs were a really popular training tire in my neighbourhood, but GP5000 has lost a lot of share to Pirelli, if that’s any indication something was lost in the new generation of GPs.
Being long lasting isn’t a positive indicator for a performance tire… tires, for bikes or anything else, invariably trade grip for longevity and vice versa. To get longevity, you have to make compromises in performance.
I think this thread comes down to two camps… those who don’t ride hard enough to value or who simply don’t value performance highly enough to compromise wear characteristics versus those who push tires enough or simply prefer higher performance enough that they’re willing to sacrifice wear in favor of performance.
As I’ve said previously, as a Jack of all trades, the GP5000 is a solid tire… there’s tires that grip better, roll better, and last longer but, as a tire that does all three fairly well it’s in a solid position for mainstream sport riders. If you’re willing to give up a bit of performance for a bit of life, but refuse to go to a ‘dead’, commuter focused tire like a gatorskin, then it’s a solid choice. But the guys pretending it’s the ultimate tire option are either really limited in their experience or they’re getting a nickel from Conti every time they push a GP5k online.
Well, Continental do test very well in all RR tests and only get bested by TT specific tires with no puncture resistance layer which are less than ideal on road use. I like Corsa Speeds and how they feel (and they are faster tires, too, although not very grippy in the wet, it must be said), but they’re really too vulnerable to be really practical outside of timetrials and triathlon.
The Continentals might and probably do sacrifice grip for that (probably do, because from my understanding compounds which roll faster offer less grip, so if you’re getting a fast rolling tire which has a puncture protection layer something must be sacrificed), but being a latecomer to the sport I don’t push it on corners as much as some do and I’m not a heavy rider so braking grip isn’t an issue, so if it is deficient there, I wouldn’t notice.
Someone who has better bike handling skills might, though. At the end it’s a matter of priorities and preferences, and suggesting a tire the OP doesn’t like seems a bit senseless.
Or those of us not willing to endure the regular punctures that come with many performance tyres during day to day, year-round high mileage riding. I promise you won’t find many UK riders running clincher Corsas, for example, as their day-to-day tyre, however fast they are.
To keep on topic, if the OP wants a ‘training and light racing’ tyre, with durability listed explicitly as a criteria, some comments in his first post that puncture resistance is also desirable, and isn’t Continental, that to me gives a relatively short list. I’d say the Power Roads are probably the best option that I can personally recommend, obviously not having ridden everything!
LOL… I’ve got roughly 1400 miles on my current Corsa Control with exactly zero punctures. Punctures are less about the tire than they are about the rider’s line choice on the road.
Night, rain, leaves, sand, urban area. Pick 5. Then choose line
Though some situations are just not favourable for regular riding on a good tire - like people that need to ride for an hour out of the heart of big city downtown cores to get to nice (relatively speaking) riding roads. Broken pavement, potholes, expansion cracks, high traffic volumes forcing you to ride in a narrowly defined sliver of road beside the curbing - delicate sidewall tires just won’t last long. I wouldn’t give a nice cotton tubular long in this world where I need to ride out of. If I was in the city outskirts to begin with I’m sure I could match you on your Corsa Control mileage without a puncture. I’m sure I could match your non-puncture mileage on regular Corsas!
Riding out of Berlin entails all you described plus loads of broken glass (seems to be a favourite pastime here). The Corsa Controls held up quite well for about 2500 km, I only started getting punctures after that, when the rubber was (probably) worn thinner. I don’t believe that the rubbish roads here are any better than those in the UK. Only thing is they don’t cut that many hedges here
The Corsa Control are thicker than regular Corsas, that’s their game, they’re supposed to be more durable. I’ve never ridden the regular version so can’t speak to the difference between them. They felt slower compared to the GP I’m running ATM, but were definitely more comfortable.
If you’re a member of a cycling club in the UK, you will know very well that very few people run Corsas, Turbo Cottons - any kind of very thin, supple-cased racing tyre, basically - as a general use, year round tyre. Everybody tries it, because they ride so much better, but 90% of people end up doing 1 of 2 things: moving to a more robust tyre year round (which tends to happen more now most people run discs and don’t put on winter wheels) or sometime in October, the winter wheels and tyres come out.
Why? Because the supple, thin-casing race tyres simply puncture too often, and after a while, either you get fed up with it, or your ride leader has a quiet word at the end of the ride and tells you it’s getting a bit old.
In the summer, they’re largely fine, and line choice is indeed a factor, but in the late Autumn through to mid Spring - nah. Hedges are cut, rains wash flints/sharp stones into the lanes, potholes appear, etc etc. There is only so far these things can be avoided over a month’s worth of decent riding, given traffic, narrow road widths, or actually travelling at a decent speed
Or perhaps a nation of riders can’t choose their line.
The better (as in more than 50%) part of a continent ^^
The inability to choose lines is really the least of of the issues facing the UK if we’re being honest. But yeah, most flats are just carelessness… pro tip: ride around the glass, not through it.
Also, not sure if you’re not understanding the distinction or just stuck on the sookery and can’t come off it but Corsa’s and Corsa Control’s are two different tires. Control’s are a winter race tire… they replaced the Open Pave and, if anything, they’re less prone to flats than your beloved GP5k. So, pretending that nobody in the UK can make it through winter aboard a set is nonsensical.
This. I have been to your country and have seen it with my very eyes. But it’s a problem you share with the car drivers.
Veloflex Corsa Race clincher. Feels like tubular
Has anyone suggested Continental Grand Prix (4000) GT’s yet? (I know, they are from Continental.) You still get ‘BlackChili compound’ and better punture protection (PolyX-breaker) than a GP5000 (Vectran breaker). While lighter than a 4-season. The only disadvantage I see is that they tend to balloon more than other tires on wider rims (e.g. 21mm internally).
Because of the latter I now use Corsa Control’s, which, admittedly, give a bit more road feel.
And if light racing wasn’t on the wishlist I could have mentioned Vredestein Fortezza Senso All-Weather.
BTW, modern tires that use multi-compound technology can(!) perform both good or even great on the performance and the longevity front. And with enough silica in the compounds they can also perform well in the wet.
I’ve been eyeing their tires. The reviews are good, the construction seems sound and they are made in Italy, too.
The fast, grippy, durable triangle is a tough nut to crack. I would classify the Turbo Cotton as fast, grippy and more durable than you would expect, but still not great in the durability category.
I guess the most difficult part of your question is understanding how much you want to emphasize “fast”. The AeroCoach Crr data pretty much gives you a list of everything that is actually fast and many of the tires that are as “fast” or “faster” than something like the GP5000s or Turbe Cotton are demonstrably not durable. If you can give people a hint about how much slower a tire you would consider that would probably be helpful.
Would agree, its a compromise no matter what you do which is why I structured the thread question as more of a “show me what tires are out there” since there are many players in this market outside of Continental. I guess the best approach is to buy and try and see what works for you since there are so many variables, obviously the GP 5000 which works for many doesn’t work for me which is fine, they own the market which dictates that the performance decisions they’ve made works for many.
Just to add a caveat to the puncture aspect. I think that generally you’ve got to look at puncture resistance from two aspects. One is the actual puncture barrier itself and Two is the wear expected before the puncture barrier is diminished. A great example of the aforementioned is the standard Corsa. The normal Corsa and the Corsa speed are no doubt race tires, that being said I find them to be very puncture resistant up until the 1000 mile mark where they’re very apt to puncture a ton that being said 1000 miles is about 14-15 Cat 3/4 races which with the state of racing in the US is like 4-5 years. Obviously I’m in the minority of people now who have race wheels and training wheels. To give a little context, I’m willing to trade speed (RR) for grip and durability, just not looking to go to ultra endurance tires since I occasionally will do a weeknight crit or fast group ride with my training wheels on.
I’ve just picked up some Veloflex Corsa Evos in the Black Friday sales, so will be giving those a try in the near future and reporting back. But we currently have a dusting of snow on the ground and it’s 1 deg C, so it’s Zwift and gravel for the moment!
Interestingly enough, BRR have added a wet grip measurement which largely confirms the idea that while GP5000s are excellent on rolling resistance and puncture resistance / durability (for such a fast tire), the grip is worse than, say, Vittoria Corsa and Corsa Control (or old Rubinos the OP used to ride) tires or new Specialized tubeless tires (Turbo Rapidair something) and more inline with TT specific tires.
Whether 10% better grip is worth 10-12% rolling resistance difference (which means about 0.2% or so overall resistance difference) is quite subjective. Racing an IM, the new and narrower 25mm GP5000S seems like a hard to beat choice, but for riding a road bike aggressively in corners downhill not the best one.
You have to make tradeoffs in tire design.