Wherefore art thou integrated seat post binder?

Why has the integrated seat post binder become an endangered species, especially on Ti bikes?

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Because $$$?

Also, tangentially, ‘Wherefore art thou’ is more like a why are you? than a where are you?

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I agree with that. I’m not sure what the advantage is to it. There may be a slight weight advantage, but it limits the amount of adjustability, often times reduces the amount of overall compliance, and can be a nuisance if not machined properly (I’m thinking of Giant TCR). I’m not trying to be contradictory to the original poster, but what would the appeal be? If something happened to my current road bike, a Giant TCR would probably be my next choice, and even if the price was the same between the one without the integrated seat mast and the one with it, I’d still choose the one without it.

I understood the question to be about integrated binder (as opposed to separate collar) rather than about integrated seat mast. I don’t know the answer why but other than older Merlin Ti frames, it seems most Ti frames use a collar.

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The question is definitely about the integrated binder, not integrated seat masts.

A few reasons:

  1. With Ti, the binder has to be welded on. This takes time and adds heat and distortion to the tube (see 2)

  2. distorted seat tube clamps poorly. The rounder the ST, the better the clamping force (see 3)

  3. separate seat collars are stiffer, so they can apply the clamping load much more evenly than a welded binder. Welded binders need more torque to clamp (see 4)

  4. welded binders can fail. Heat stress from welding, undersized seat posts, over-tightened bolts can lead to failure of the seat tube.

This all applies to steel bikes as well. As much as I love the look of built-in binders, I don’t think its worth the risk.

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Seat post binders…put in the too hard basket just like forks these days.

Easier for builders to not do either these days rather than do it right.

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Builders used to integrate it because external binders simply did not exist for decades when most of the bikes were filet brazed. Ti builders did it too at the beginning because people were used to the aesthetic of the integrated binder and the external ones were considered inelegant.

At the beginning external binders were made for cheap mass market bikes because it was just the less expensive and fastest way to build bikes. Then the manufacturing process got generalized, carbon fiber bikes market share increased where an alu separate collar is more reliable and where other solutions were introduced both for aesthetic and aero reasons like seapost wedge.

Appart from aesthetics, there aren’t many advantages of welded binders and more risks. We all have seen old steel bike whose welded binder ended up damaged by some hamfisted dude trying to avoid slippage on seatpost of the wrong diameter. So most new builders don’t even learn how to make/weld them and most customers do not care for it. Only those that have a certain idea of elegance and tradition look for it.

It is kind of the same for that little chain hanger that was welded/brazed on the right chainstay of almost every road bike frame back in the days to keep the chain from hanging on the ground when the rear wheel was removed. The instagram generation of bicycle frame builders have mostly lost attention to all these little details and bar a few exceptions you cannot count on larger brands for these kind of things as they prioritize cost reduction. I sure do but many current riders don’t even know those things existed, have forgotten, or got used to the lower standards of current the industry, so they don’t miss it.

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Yes indeed - Juliet was expressing frustration or fear that Romeo was a Montague with the inevitable tragedy that must ensue.

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Not withstanding Romeo would not shut-up about Rim brakes V’s Disk for his Colnago.
Juliet was often heard to mutter under her breath “Thou should give it a rest mate!”

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I hate those hangers and every through axle bike already has a device that serves the purpose perfectly well.

The horror, the horror…

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I don’t know if I am supposed to do it but I put grease on my through-axle. The last thing I want on my chain is grease.

Also when removing the wheel you already have one hand on the frame. You have to remove the axle first from the second hand, then find somewhere to put that axle temporary or keep it in the hand awkwardly while removing the wheel with same hand, then put the wheel on the ground, put back the axle with one hand, still having the frame on the other hand while grabbing back the chain with which hand … all this while trying not to let the chain drag the ground and end up dirtier.

But maybe I am doing all this wrong.

What is to hate about those hangers? They are tiny, most probably low drag, always there things that do the job fairly well without the operator having to do hand gymnastic. I like them.

Well I dig those chain hangers and over all those years - every custom builder that worked for me was willing and able to fit one on my frame upon request - period

Them seatpost binders on the frame are another story altogether - in my experience and for what I saw will wrenching. Especially with Ti frames they tended to force the seat tube oval after a while and let to quite some problems fixing that …

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Spot on! Having Ti bikes with both, the one with the collar is easier to use, and I have seen failures of the welded on binders.

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Those chain holders are phenomenal, I remember I peckered around with buying a Mosaic a while back and told my fitter who was a dealer I’d want one of those brazed on if I were to order a custom frameset. He said they don’t do them anymore on account of safety because evidently “people would leave the chain on them after a flat then pedal away damaging the seat stay”. May be a bogus excuse but I’ve seen enough 50 year old guys on nice bikes who can’t swap a tube out so may be true.

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The design I use (but only if asked) attaches to the chainstay to obviate this problem.

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