What are the odds that Favero will revise the DUO-Shi so that it has a smaller Q-Factor? Similarly is it possible for them to produce an axle/power meter for the Dura-Ace SPD-SL? I assume patents by Shimano prevent Favero from producing a pedal body designed for SPD-SL cleats.
I don’t know what their sales numbers on the Assioma DUO-Shi are, but I sure don’t see ads for that model as much as the Assioma DUO. Surely the chatter about the DUO-Shi’s “generous” Q-factor isn’t what Favero was hoping for. It seems a big step backward from the success and rave reviews of the DUO.
Complete speculation here: The Assioma’s have been out for a while, so I suspect any ‘update’, would be for all models, or would be a completely new line. My guess is that it will be marketed as an update, rather than a new product, unlike the bepro->assioma. Assioma has good reputation, they will want to build on that. I can’t imagine them doing a specific update to the Shi pedals. If it would have been easy to do a better q factor they would have done it for the initial release.
I think the SPD-SL patents expire soon (too lazy to look it up :), so I could see Favero releasing a major update to the pedals - ie a new spindle, and then offer it with both Look and SPD-SL cleats with ‘good’ q-factors.
If I recall correctly, it doesn’t expire until like 2028 or 2030. First pedals came out in 2003 but I think they were done under provisional patent and the actual patent wasn’t awarded until 2008-2010. They also just filed a power meter SPD-SL pedal in the last couple years and I’m not sure how that would work in terms of protecting the pedal design vs the power meter component alone. I wouldn’t count on third party SPD-SL pedals being on the horizon just yet.
If Shimano has plans to bring out a power meter pedal, I hope it’s more accurate than their current power meter options. It would be an interesting development.
Still, there has to be some way that Favero can reduce the Q-factor on their DUO-Shis. It’s hard to believe they’re chuffed with the results.
Completely agree. I think they did it not because it is a ‘great’ product, but it’s good enough for not much work. I think to resolve issues like Q factor they would need to change the size/shape of the electronic pods. I would expect changing this would be one of their design goals for the next version.
That said, I have Assioma’s and am quite happy with them. With their existing pedal bodies the pod is not a problem. I’d rather have their current pricing than no pods and them priced similar to the Garmin or SRM offerings. They are a great value, and I’d be bummed to see the value of the pedals go down.
If you get a chance you should try them. I got a chance at LBS and I subsequently bought them. I am 6feet tall with broader proportions than an average cyclist. In my experience these pedals are more comfortable and I don’t think I will go back to narrower pedals again. Of course this is totally individual specific.
I also am surprised by the increased Q factor - I just tried out Duo-Shi pedals on my trainer yesterday for an hour and I think they improved my fit. 6’2" and broad-ish shoulders here.
Is the criticism coming from people who used them or based on reading about the Q factor difference? Anyone who rides a MTB and a roady already experiences significant differences in Q factor and there doesn’t seem to be any complaint. I have some look compatible Assiomas that I use on my TT and trainer bikes and haven’t noticed the width difference when switching between these and my normal Look pedals on my roadies.
I don’t know what the riders or reviewers in question ride, but I do that replacing my pedal axles with axles that were 4mm longer made a huge difference in knee comfort and in pain reduction. So imagine the converse is equally possible: a change in pedal stance can cause issues, especially with clipless pedals.
My guess is that it’s mostly from people who have not tried significantly different Q factors on their road bikes since I think that very few people have actually done this. I don’t know if I’d be OK with the Q factor change (no experience with significantly different Q factors), so that would be something I would be concerned about for a large purchase like this. The problem is it’s hard to know if it’s a problem without trying, and it’s expensive to try.
I tried these for about 6 weeks and just couldn’t get along with them no matter how I positioned my cleats. I typically ride the +4mm version of the DA9100 pedals with my cleats set as wide as possible, so I mistakenly thought I could live with the increased Q-factor. I’ve now sold them at a loss.
The discomfort I experienced was mainly in my hip, but if you watch any prominent YouTubers who say they are fine with the increased Q-factor (DCRM, Peak Torque etc.), when they film themselves riding you can clearly see their knee tracking towards the top tube on the upstroke. That’s a recipe for knee trouble long-term.